Jonathan Franzen is one of the most influential novelists alive today. He was a Pulitzer Prize finalist and a National Book Award winner, and this conversation is all about how he writes his books. For him, great writing begins with great characters. And developing great characters begins with ruthless self-examination. Franzen has always had an outsider’s eye. He questioned the hype of modern technology long before it was fashionable to do so, and he’s diagnosed the spiritual emptiness of modern consumerism as well as anybody alive today. Timestamps: 00:00 Creating rich characters 02:40 Should novels be funny? 12:01 Examining your own life 14:49 Why novels must be fun 25:15 How clichés ruin fiction 29:16 How to observe society 43:28 The dangers of modern tech 49:22 Lies about “the good life” 52:38 Does chaos make you creative? 54:49 Jonathan’s writing routine 59:37 Why he loves birds If you want to watch it elsewhere, look up “David Perell” or “How I Write” on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.